hi... i just kind of stumbled across your blog while i was doing some searching... i agree with your point... but essentially isn't helping people grow into a deep, loving relationship with Jesus just a form of evangalism? if you don't think so, please respond with your definition, i'm not just some punk who's trying to raise trouble, really i'm not, i am a believer, i'm one of those 18-30 year olds who's having a lot of issues with the "church" as it presently stands, and just trying to see what other people feel... please respond, i honestly intend no offence, just good conversation

Hello Travis,

Thanks for your comments. You make a good point that “a deep, loving relationship with Jesus [is] just a form of evangelism.” My exception to your statement would be the word “just,” but that’s perhaps quibbling and not the main point, in any case.

I think you hit on something profoundly important, and a point that many never see: It’s all about knowing Jesus and the passionate love He has for us. With that experiential knowledge, “evangelism” takes care of itself, and without it, “evangelism” is irrelevant, because we have nothing of value to share.

Jesus said in Acts 1 that when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, we will be his witnesses. The purpose of this outpouring of the Spirit in and on us is twofold: That we might truly know Jesus, and that, out of that knowing, we may be empowered to represent him before the world. In my opinion, this is “evangelism”: living a life that remains as close to Jesus as possible, in hope that a little of what He does in us will rub off on those with whom we come in contact.

In John 15, Jesus said that He is the Vine and we are the branches, and that as we remain attached to him, fruitfulness is a natural outcome.

God bless you.

While this all sounds very friendly and nice, we must also realise that we should also teach our flocks discernment. Jesus does not go to the trouble of predetermining who will and who will not be saved for nothing. Nor should good Christians waste their efforts on those who must remain unsaved and worthless. These can be considered the enemies of Jesus, and we all know how Jesus felt about His enemies and those who would deny HIm.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Go with God, my friends.
Pastor Gargalo.

Hi Avi, Travis and Pastor Gargalo.
Avi and Travis,
I think you both hit it right on the nail head. I was led to Christ by a believer who had the fruit pouring out of her. Anyone who ever came to know Christ through me was attracted by Christ in me.

Pastor Gargalo,
It's tough to know who our Lord may someday deem worthy of His salvation.
copper

I like what is being said about the Living close to Jesus and about Love. God said to love him with all our heart and soul and strength, depending on what translation you use. and then he said to Love your neighbor the same. Jesus says go and make disciples, and making disciples is not just a process of telling about Jesus,it goes deeper then that. I for myself was not completely influenced by Christians good lives because honestly I never saw it that greatly. It was someone who spoke Gods Truth to me and got me studying Creation Science. I realized that my mind was being changed to be more accepting of the Love of Christ, before this my arrogant mind had hardened my heart to the Gospel.
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Genuine evangelism is when we Love God and love those whom God loves--which is everyone. Jesus said to let our light shine and it will draw people. When we feed the hungry, visit the prisoners, clothe the naked, tend the sick, support the defenseless and marginalized THAT is true evangelism. But just yammering to have a personal relationship with Jesus etc etc is a waste of time and energy.
I am also appalled at the ignorant perversion of genuine Love by those who should know better such as the avowed pastor above. His Lucan quote to justify condemnation for others is wrong.
Jesus did not say that. Jesus was illustrating a point (which had nothing to do with who is loved by God) and using a contemporary person (Herod Antipas) and event(his accession) to do so.
We should stop trying to do the job of God. In John we see that Jesus says the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin--not me, not this pastor, not Pope Ratzi, not Pat Robertson.
Maybe if we spent more time actively serving other people and less time trying to second guess the Spirit we would see more authentic Christian love.

I will answer within quotation marks.

Genuine evangelism is when we Love God and love those whom God loves--which is everyone.

"Are you really so sure? I believe that scripture tells us something very different indeed. Let us take a look into the book of Romans 1.

1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I fail to see how God loves those who are under His wrath and are looking at a future in Hell."

Jesus said to let our light shine and it will draw people. When we feed the hungry, visit the prisoners, clothe the naked, tend the sick, support the defenseless and marginalized THAT is true evangelism.

"Are you sure this is all He said? I believe again that scripture says something else. Remember, there were many people Jesus warned us to avoid. This is why I made the comment a few posts above. Jesus actually tells us to avoid those who will not be saved.

Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Matthew 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Are we to spend time with all these people you mentioned? I think not.

1st Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

According to our savior, we cannot evangelize to people we are commanded to avoid. This is especially true of unbelievers. Let us look to scripture to show us what is written.

2nd Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2nd Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2nd Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2nd Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate , saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

I personally think it poor form to teach a Christianity that is not contained within scripture."

But just yammering to have a personal relationship with Jesus etc etc is a waste of time and energy.

"On this we can agree."

I am also appalled at the ignorant perversion of genuine Love by those who should know better such as the avowed pastor above. His Lucan quote to justify condemnation for others is wrong.

"Is that so? Well, what does the Bible actually say? Let us take a look, shall we? Here is something said of unbelievers.

2nd John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2nd John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2nd John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Those verses clearly show that we are to have nothing to do with unbelievers. There is nothing about loving them. Indeed, anyone not a Christian is working with the devil. Scripture clearly tells us to make sound judgements upon others and judge them accordingly. According to you, we should not have any standards at all.

1st Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1st Corinthians 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

The above is perfectly clear and needs no interpretation. We are told clearly to put non believers away from us."

Jesus did not say that. Jesus was illustrating a point (which had nothing to do with who is loved by God) and using a contemporary person (Herod Antipas) and event(his accession) to do so.

"But what point is it? Jesus' attitude to the unsaved is clear in more than one Biblical verse. You reprove me for showing an attitude that exists throughout the Bible. Why do you do this? Is there scripture for which you feel shame?

I feel no such shame and am prepared to teach scripture as written. Again, let us look to scripture for the facts. Not people doing their level best to apologize on behalf of Almighty God.

John 15: 6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Later Jesus says this:

12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

The above is specifically said to Christians. Christ is NOT speaking about everyone and He offers a dire warning a little later:

14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Do you see that? If we turn against Him, we are no longer even His friend, let alone loved!"

We should stop trying to do the job of God.

"I believe you did just that by making excuses for God."

In John we see that Jesus says the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin--not me, not this pastor, not Pope Ratzi, not Pat Robertson.

"Does this then mean we must ignore what I have quoted above from other books? Does one book hold more truth than another? I don't think this is what the Bible tells us. Shall we take a little peep into the Bible to see? Let's do:

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

One should not deviate from scripture."

Maybe if we spent more time actively serving other people and less time trying to second guess the Spirit we would see more authentic Christian love.

"Maybe it is time people actually read the Bible for a change and stopped reproving pastors for teaching Christianity as it is written within scripture?"

While I agree with your statement, I would also like to add that a major crisis facing the church today is a lack of knowledge. I know many Christians who are afraid to share their faith for fear they will have to defend it. Studying the word of God needs to become more of a priority, and the preacher shouldn't be afraid to wean His congregation off of the milk and begin giving them more meat, and trust that the Holy Spirit will help them understand. Once people feel less intimidated by the word of God, and become better equipped, the more likely they will be to spread it.

I believe totally in Love, with out love we can not, be used by God to convert a sinner from the error of his way. Yes we are not to be yoked with unbelievers, sin does not make a person a unbeliever. So you must be very careful with that scripture as to many of the scriptures. The Holy Spirit convictes, we just plant seeds and love. Matthew 22: 37 thru 40 says love God with all your heart,soul and mind, that is the first and greatest commandment, the second is like unto it love your neighbor as your self and then it say all the law and the prophets hang on these two laws. I John 4:8 says He that loveth not knoweth not God for God is love. I don't come in a lot of contact with those that don't believe in Jesus, but I do come in contact with believers that don't know the word of God. So I love them and let my light shine thru Matthew 25: 31 thru 46 read that very cafeful that scriptures states that you can be a goat if you don't do it and go to the left.In II Timothy 2: 15 says we must study and rightly divide Gods word. It has been my experience that when some one is not taking heed to the Love of God in me He remove them from me. I just have to keep praying and not run from what I don't want to do for someone that I think will not change. God says MY Thoughts are not Your Thoughts My ways are not your ways. So He gave us some of His mind in the Holy Bible we just have to obey to the best of our ability. We don't know how to be good. Jesus said Only God is Good, we just obey and follow directions. And seek to apply the fruits of the spirit, and have Godly sorrow when we fall short. We are not the Holy Spirit all I know for sure if I don't obey I will reap what I sow. If I obey I will reap what I sow. I love to obey to the best of my ability. I believe with all me my heart, soul and mind that love is the key. God So Loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son. Again we must rightly divide Gods word. When God place people in my life that are in total sin I just keep loving them and giving them the word when the Holy Spirit direct me. When God says it's enough He remove them. They think they left me a long but I know it's Him because they don't want to change and if you stay around me you will take a look at your self as I do me. I love the Lord he heard my cry. I came to Christ at 8 years old went through a lot of trials, now I've matured in His word. Do we believe that it is a process for us all. Just obey, we can't change our self on God can do that but we all have to go through something only God knows how long. Don't miss the chance to love being self righteous. It's easy to be self righteous when you don't want to deal with people. I hve been dealing with a lot of people in my life that are hard headed but I keep loving them and speaking God's Word in the name of Jesus. God uses me in so many peoples life and I thank him for that daily. I know love work I have so many friends I mean friends. I about 10 friend that I have had since I was 6 and I'm 50. I have so many friends and that's because I have obeyed God and treated people like I want to be treated as My mother taught me. My mother also taught me it is better to give then recieve, I don't love money I will give away my last. I make sure I don't allow money to rule me. In no way.At the same time I don't allow people to use me. God uses me to tell them the word of God. I don't use God's word to control people I use it to help them change one day. I plant seeds, only. So Let us all Let our light shine and leave the rest to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Powerful. I once prayed right in front of this person and I said God only you know if this person is gonna change I don't know if their gonna change please remove them if their not gonna change. And he did.I didn't do nothing but obey. And removed myself from feeling and emotions it was time to let go and let God but I went through a lot with this person and one day that person will know inside that I did. That's what I love about the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts in us all . If some one belongs to Christ he will change one day. We must all just be gratful that we can hear and be doers of the word and not Judge and allow the Holy Spirit and Jesus to do that. Remember if some one don't believe in Jesus don't mean one day they won't. So do your best not to bring sin on your self for acting like you know and you don't. Another thing we can be sure of is that God will cruse you if you disobey and bless you if you obey.