The question remains: How do we know God? Is it through reason or relationship?

hi Avi,

If you can simply explain what it means to "know God through relationship" in a manner which precludes what you know is false, I think we'll all (gladly) get past square one.

Hi again Chuck,

Thanks for the continued conversation. Thanks also for including me in your circle of friends. I think we have some important things in common.

You have asked me to describe what it is to know God relationally, rather than through the means of systematic theology. I will attempt to do so, though I will not guarantee that my response will satisfy you. I am talking from my heart, not my head.

My “case” is built on two principles that I believe to be fundamentally true. The first is that, if there is anything we can present as true of God, it is that He seeks to be known. I believe the purpose of the Bible is to reveal him to us, that we might know him. The second is that at some level, there is in nearly all human beings a longing to know and be known by God. This is true even if that longing is unrecognized or unacknowledged by those who have it. As a follow-up to the second principle, most people in America, at least, are not looking at the church for answers to their longing. They see nothing in the church that truly touches their soul. The church offers a mostly sterile intellectual gospel, something that appeals to the mind but never touches the heart.

So now, a little personal history. Please bear with me, but it’s necessary, since it explains how I came to the place where I now find myself.

I was raised in a church that, though not Presbyterian, would have made you proud. We had a Bible college at a time when that was highly unusual. We were encouraged to study, study, study, digging into the Bible and taking college-level theology courses while in yet high school. I took pride in my ability to visit other churches and give impressive explanations to questions in Sunday School classes. I could and did win nearly any argument about God and theology, even with adult teachers there. After years of this, I was dangerous: I had a great deal of knowledge and knew it, and was proud of myself. I considered myself a fine example of what a Christian should be, and was encouraged by adults in my life.

But my life did not show evidence of having been truly touched by the presence of God. I had no idea of what the “fruit of the Spirit” might have been in one’s life. Grace was not something that was important to me. Nothing I had learned ever challenged me personally, except in my intellect. (Interestingly, I always referred to Christ, never Jesus, and the thought of saying, “I love you, Jesus” was mortifying. It would never happen.)

As I grew older, I saw that my theology – my understanding of God and his word – was inadequate to living a life that could be considered Christian or admirable. It also never touched my soul. I was full of knowledge and argument, but empty inside. I was hollow. And I had no idea what to do about it. Nothing in my powers of learning and reason helped me.

Eventually, through some difficult events in my life, I came to a place where I set my learning aside as inadequate to the task of living, and tried to begin over, simply reading my Bible and asking God to show me what I needed to know, what was true. I realized that I could never really empty my mind, but I made a conscious effort to do so, in an attempt to find something more satisfying, something that would fill the hollow place in me.

To my great surprise, as I read I began to see a person – someone to be known and experienced, not analyzed – and this person wanted to have a relationship with me. I was astonished.

As I responded to this initiative on the part of the one I recognized to be God, I began to know him more and more. I also began to see that much of what I had learned was true and good. The problem was, I had build an edifice of knowledge on a false foundation. I began to see that theological understanding and study was a good and valid thing, but only as it was built on a genuine relationship with the person who loved me and died for me. Without that foundation, the theology was a tool of death to my soul, puffing up my false self.

It was a good thing to learn about my God, but only after I had spent time with my God. Because when I spend time in his presence, experiencing him relationally, knowledge about him only enriches my time with him. But without knowing that comes from time in his presence, gathering knowledge about him leads only to more knowledge about him, and too often to pride in my knowledge about him. It seldom leads to him.

This is very important, and has implication far beyond my subjective experience. Here’s why.

I believe that we are here to make disciples. We are, as Paul put it, here as “ambassadors” of the Redeemer. Someone has said our task is somewhat like one beggar telling another beggar where he found bread. That is perhaps oversimplifying the case, but it has merit. We live in a world of isolation, of pain, death, brutality and more. People are separated from each other, and longing for genuine relationship at the core of their souls.

No matter how exotic my theological training, I have little to offer those who are starving for genuine love and relationship unless I have experienced God myself. Therefore, it is important that I have a relationship with the Messiah on which to build my theology. Otherwise I have no foundation, and I live in a structure of my own creation, not in truly knowing the living God.

This is perhaps not what you are seeking, but it’s what I have to offer. I believe that unless we know the heart of God, anything else we might know about him is irrelevant.

Thanks for listening.

AS a student of school of theology, l wish to request for more detail in regard to more information about Carl F.H. Henry theology and some of his believe which he has for the young at heart.
Thanks
Pastor YAKUBU A

To know God is the eternal being of the Godhead and he is the everlasting thought of our mind. He goes beyound the subconcious. His existence is before anything was. Now with all of that out of the way. Remember in the Book of Gensis he had everyone with him when it was written," Let us," to know God is to know yourself, we are made in his image and how often we say be glad that I am not God, because I would and later that day you think about your comment. Then say I do not believe I would have anyway. Jesus said he and the father are one (111) make one. A man cannot be successful with his life until he has established a relationship with God. Sure you may be a billionaire but still be missing something be married for sixty years and still be missing something,a void that needs to be filled a common place that is relieved only when you go to church. Think about it when the last time you been to the house of God.Did not you not feel a great comfort and security. The spirit man was home in the house, we are the church but we need fellowship with God through his preached and teached word, prayer works well also. Always remember being a christian is like a marriage you have got to respect yourself and represent the wife, so we must respect God and represent Jesus and be guided by the Holy Spirit. When realize we have changed then we have established our relationship with God.

This is to anyone that wants to know, how do we know God. Plain and simple, just like anyone else you ever met. Yes you meet him. You have hear all these people talking about thier relatioship with God,what it means to them.Sorry but they haven't met God yet. What they think is a relationship is really only thier faith building from reading the Word.Yes they are close,They feel the spirit and this bond is building inside them,But this is as far as they can go, because thier mind gets between the sole and God.When a person dies thier sole has no problem going to God.Why, because the mind is not there to stop it.God is right hear, right now, always has been, always will be.The sole is not the mind. The sole is the spark that gives you life.When you see a dead person, the body is here the brain is here.But the lights are out.That spark that gives us life is gone, and it wont have any problem going to the Lord to stand in front of the Mercy seat.The brain is no longer able to say, I heard of God,I try to talk to God,but I never met God,I really dont know if God is real. When that brain of ours dies, the sole has no problem going back to its scorce.The easy way to meet God is to let go of all reason. Just feel the spirit give yourshelf to Jesus.Your sole knows him,but your mind forgot about God, and relearn terestial and human properties.Please do not think I'm bragging, when I tell you this.What and why I tell this, is only to hopefully point you in the direction,and except nothing less than having the Holy Spirit come upon you.After this baptism by the Father himshelf.Jesus Christ will appear to you,but it might not be right away.I myshelf didn't meet him untill seven years later.When this spirit comes on you.The word of God will be unlocked to you, and an understanding of the Word, like you never had before.The Holy Spirit will keep teaching you as long as you live.He has other spiritual gifts also.The Lord comes to me mostly, during lent.Last year he told me, I could not go to him untill I was willing to bring my sins with me to give them to him.This is a hard road to walk, and I find myshelf only able to walk it during lent.This year I have done much better and hopfully,I will see him again this lent.Meeting God is the easyest, yet the hardest thing to overcome.Its easy because you dont have to do anything,the hardest is to get past the mind, and just let your feelings go to Jesus.Just believe, Jesus is alive RIGHT NOW and he knows us and he wants us to know him.The door is Mat,Mark,Luke,John,Acts,read it every day.Pray and go to an allter call, faith healer, T.V. prayer.Keep doing it untill you recieve.One warning if you really havent read the four gospels,and you havent heard to much of Jesus dont expect much.You have to charge up your faith. And its not mind over matter,crowd excitment, ect, ect.When it happened to me, I was all alone with no one else around.This happened over twenty years ago, I have yet to meet, and would truly wellcome if anyone else that has truly met God.

George,

I think you are making it far more complicated than it needs to be. How do we know God? It's fairly simple: We ask Him to reveal himself to us, out of a seeking heart. He delights in being known. It doesn't take tarrying, struggling until He finally shows up, reading all the gospels (though that's not a bad idea) to pump up our faith, or anything like that. It is, simply, calling out to him out of a sincere, seeking heart. God never refuses such a request.

That will start us on the path of a lifetime of growing in love with him and of knowing him more deeply as we go. It's a great life, and the only life that matters in the end.

When the Holy Spirit came upon me I had a vision. I was standing on green grass. To my left,Gods right, was a tall easter lilly.Looking down at the grass, a spring of water started comming out of the ground. The next thing I knew I could feel The cool water inside my stomach,it spread out into my arms and legs.My toung started moving by itself.I could not controll it, and I could feel a heavy kicking in my belly,like I was pregnant.This kicking is the new conceived spirit. The easter lilly is symbolic of Christ.And he's at the right of the father.The water is the Holy Spirit, as it flows from the throne of God,the river of life.This was my first phyical encounter with God.
Now that I'm an older spirit,I realize that my soul was in two places at the same time,here in the present,but at the same time,also at the thrown of God, in the future at my death.
Seven years later I had three dreams in the same night.The first dream, Mother Mary stood at the end of my bed shaking it, telling me its time to wake up.The secound dream the voice of God spoke to me.The third,Jesus Christ apeared to me.I spoke to him,but in his presence I felt unworthy, shamefull,I wanted to look at his face, but the shame was to much for me to do it.His robe is so white and pure it glows.Everthing he told me happened, just as he said it would. I never prayed to Mary, and was raised baptis. I am not talking about one day decideing to go to church, and getting a good feeling from it.I am talking about encounters and interacting with God. As of last june I started seeing the death angel.Two people have died in the houses I have seen him in.One on the night I first saw him.And again about ten days later after seeing him at a different house.After seeing it at my friends house.I took oil, wine, water, and marked her doors and windows.She thought I was nuts.She went out to the super market that night, and hit a light post with her van.She got a broken nose and sprane arm from it.Ten days later the upstairs tenate died of a drug overdose.She still does not except when I tell her the things I see.I do not fool around with anything.I only read the bible.I know this comes from God alone,I have no power at all to see unless he wills it to be so.