A puzzlement

God is a God of justice. Therefore, how could he arbitrarily designate certain people as "created for destruction"?


Hi Larry,

Peace,Love and Grace of our Lord Christ be with you! I read your question and I will tell you that I had the same problem understanding that to begin with.

You are not the first to ask this question, infact the early Christians in Roman asked Apostle Paul the same Question in Roman9:19:24(Please read Paul's answer, it is not easy answer but the truth has to be spoken)

God of justice!

Things to clear out Larry about God(Since the postmodern word have Rosy God so much)

-God the Father hates sin,He left his Son on the cross because of Christ was carry the sin of the people who choose to repent and have faith in him(Justification)

-God the Father is so just that what you have done must be paid, no one walks without going through his just and his wrath(for all have fallen short, all have sinned and are sinning) I am, you are, there are! Sad we can not stop sinning but we are called to try and face the cross when we are down through continuous repentance and faith on Christ.

-If God was unjust, then they will be no Hell? But he is just. Ask yourself what of ten commandment have you kept? Love God with all our heart? No, Steal, wow we had and sometimes we do without knowing? Murder, Matt 5 Jesus say If you are angry with your brother you have committed murder at heart in the eyes of God!Adultery? Lustful looking at a woman! How many times do we see commercial,movies or magazine pictures and lust?

In the end of the day we are all sinners and do deserve God just! We cry just when people do wrong this to us! How then will God be just with us.

But as Christian, God the father exercised his just and wrath(Isaiah 53) on his beloved Son. God the father is so just that you and I had to pay for our sin but Christ to who God the father gave to us when we were still sinner pay it all(Ransom) but not for everyone, only to those who Repent(turning our from sin and hating things that God hates) and have faith in Him as the only way to Heaven.

Why do you think this is called the Gospel = Good news, it is good news for God exercised his just to you and I and crash and bruise His only Son that you may know the Truth that Christ died and live that you may have life in Heaven, and this will set you free from fear of Hell.

I hope I have answer your question


Your response is interesting, except for one thing: You do not address the key word - arbitrarily. Some hold that God selects whom he will for destruction, and does so arbitrarily, with no rational basis. That's a problem, since it's not possible, I think, to be arbitrary in judgement and be just at the same time.

Ah! The Doctrine of Election and Reprobation :D

This is my outline from Wayne Grudem's Sunday Class teaching. For a better understanding of God's arbitrarily designate certain people as "created for destruction" a systematic approach may help you find the answer

One thing though you need to know, We were all suppose to go in destruction, all of us. We have all sin.

God did not have to save any one of us. If the boat is seeking and all Children and Adults going to perish, if one is save, it is a miracle, two it is a bless, 10 it is awesome, 1000's it is grace.

One thing which keep me focus, it amazing grace that God chose me and you not for destruction but for enternal life with Him through Christ Jesus.

Here is my outline from Wayne, Go through it systematic, read verse by verse and reflect, If you are strong in Christ, pray before going through it because I know that God Spirit of wisdom and understand is still here with us, as it was when God revealed Himself to Job.

Election and Reprobation

Definition: Election is an act of God before creation in which he chooses some people to be saved, not on account of any
foreseen merit in them, but only because of his sovereign good pleasure.
A. Does the New Testament teach predestination?
List of NT verses: Acts 13:48; Eph 1:4-6; Rom. 8:28-30; 9:11-13; 1 Thess. 1:4-5; 1 Tim. 5:21;
1 Pet. 1:1-2; 2:9.
B. How does the New Testament present the teaching of election?
1. As a comfort (Rom 8:28-30).
2. As a reason to praise God (Eph. 1:5-6; 1 Thess. 1:2, 4; 2 Thess. 2:13-14).
3. As an encouragement to evangelism (2Ti 2:10).
C. Correcting misunderstandings of the doctrine of election
1. Election is not fatalistic or mechanistic (Ezek. 33:11; Eph. 1:5; Matt. 11:28; John 3:18; Rom. 10:14, 17;
Rev. 22:17).
2. Election is not based on God's foreknowledge of our faith
a. This is the classic “Arminian” position. The ultimate reason for election is the
person’s own decision to believe or not.
b. Response:
i. Foreknowledge of persons, not facts (1 Cor. 8:3; Gal. 4:9).
ii. Scripture never speaks of our faith as the reason God chose us
(Rom. 9:11-13; 11:5-6; Eph. 1:5-6; 2 Tim. 1:9).
iii. Election based on something good in us (our faith) would be the beginning of
salvation by merit (Eph. 1:5-6).
iv. Predestination based on foreknowledge still does not give people free choice
(If God looks into the future and sees belief, then it is absolutely certain).
v. Conclusion: election is unconditional (Eph. 1:5-6).
D. Objections to the doctrine of election
1. Election means that we do not have a choice in whether we accept Christ or not
Answer: We have a voluntary and real choice along with God's predestination
2. On this definition of election, our choices are not real choices
Answer: God counts them as real in Scripture; therefore, they are real!
3. The doctrine of election makes us puppets or robots, not real persons
Answer: God created us in his image (Gen. 1:27), and counts us as real persons
4. The doctrine of election means that unbelievers never had a chance to believe
a. Answer: Scripture blames people for rejecting God's message
b. (John 5:39-40; 8:43; Matt. 23:37; Rom. 9:20)
5. Election is unfair
Answer: It would be perfectly fair if God did not save anyone (Rom. 9:18-24)
6. The Bible says that God wills to save everyone (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9)
Answer: Yes! But both sides say God desires something else more than saving everyone
a. Arminian answer: God desires to preserve man’s totally free will more
b. Reformed answer: God desires to demonstrate his glory in both salvation and
in righteous judgment more
E. The doctrine of reprobation
Definition: The sovereign decision of God before creation to pass over some persons, in sorrow
deciding not to save them, and to punish them for their sins, and thereby to manifest his justice.
(Jude 4; Rom. 9:17-22; 11:7; 1 Pet. 2:8; Matt. 11:25-26; Ezek. 33:11)

Wayne Grudem really did great handling this topic, I can not do it better :D

Well, most people discover the natural first; therefore, it take more simple information from the spirit to appeal to the human mind. Our Creator made a choice and we as humans must live with this choice every day here on earth. Jesus were not authorized to change the circumstances here on earth; then, Jesus teachings must have more information than being discussed. When will the struggle between good and evil end? Only God knows!!!

Leave a comment

Loading tweets:

Follow us on Twitter!

  • Mason J said:
      Well, most people discover the natural first; therefore, it take more ...
  • Prayson Daniel said:
      Ah! The Doctrine of Election and Reprobation :D This is my outline fr...
  • Larry Baden said:
      Prayson, Your response is interesting, except for one thing: You do n...
  • Prayson Daniel said:
      Hi Larry, Peace,Love and Grace of our Lord Christ be with you! I read...

home quodlibet journal theo blog sermons theology e-texts church history forum home